Former Governor Charlie Crist made headlines earlier this week when he refused to engage Lt. Gov. Carlos Lopez-Cantera in a debate. Governor Rick Scott responded to the awkward event by stating Crist ought to debate his Democratic Primary opposition former Senate Minority Leader Nan Rich first.
In the past few days calls for a Democratic Primary debate have grown. Activists have been abuzz throughout partisan and progressive circles as Crist’s campaign rhetoric appears to be positioned towards a general electorate and his campaign continues to experience some rocky times. Activists in the party are concerned about Governor Crist’s unwillingness to take a strong stand against private school “choice” proposals working their way through the legislature and some still find his two month old comments about Jeb Bush troubling.
As the calls grow from activists, Democratic leaders have been caught in a tough position. Congressman Ted Deutch responded to a question at a town hall meeting that a debate between Crist and Rich would be worthwhile. Additionally, many within the party who are active at both the state and local level have taken to social media this week to promote the idea of debates between the candidates in the Democratic Primary.
Obviously Governor Crist has little incentive to debate. Front runners who are presumptive nominees and have the deck stacked in their favor tend to not ever want to give the opposition a forum for their views. It is particularly risky in Crist’s case because he is untested as a Democrat debating on issues of importance to the party. His slip-up on Bush shows that despite his teflon image and his propensity for political reinvention, he can make very big mistakes when tested.
Historically, front-runners have dodged debates.
After Lawton Chiles had used a televised statewide debate to turn the tide against a seemingly young looking, arrogant and unprepared Jeb Bush in 1994, the Republicans were reluctant to engage Democrats in debates during the 1998 cycle. Much like 1994, Bush led in the polls throughout 1998. But in 1994, Bush’s debate performance had been a contributing factor in his defeat. Chiles had drawn even with Bush in public polling after the debate and was reelected by a narrow margin.
Thus, Bush’s camp dragged its feet in 1998 on debating Democrat Buddy MacKay finally agreeing to a single joint appearance. This debate again was not Bush’s finest moment, but MacKay less telegenic than the folks Chiles was not able to take advantage.
In 2002, it took months for then front runner Janet Reno to agree to debate her primary opponents and when the debate did finally take place less than two weeks before the primary, the consensus was that the third placed candidate Senator Daryl Jones was the victor. That same year, Charlie Crist running for Attorney General in a Republican Primary was being described by his opposition as an “empty suit.” Crist wisely dodged as many joint appearances as possible with Senator Locke Burt and Solicitor General Tom Warner, his primary opponents. This included skipping local Republican party functions if needed to avoid the opposition.
It is easy to dodge debates if the calls seem to be coming from a fringe element. Until very recently, Crist and his allies in the Democratic Party have been able to marginalize those calling for debates. However, the discussion is beginning to reach critical mass and either Governor Crist can try once again to ride out the storm or can engage those in the party still unsure about him. The ball is in the court of his campaign and it will be very telling how he handles these next few weeks.
The Florida Squeeze 
More Democratic shenanigans here:
http://orlando-politics.com/2014/04/17/orange-democrats-spring-reception-to-feature-dyer-and-state-of-party-address-by-county-chairman/#comment-52168
Sort of a bizarre line-up, with two primary candidates (i.e. Nan and Alan) HOSTING what is supposed to be an OC DEC 2014 “Spring Reception’ party event for OC Dems. It’s not a campaign committee event. Some might say that’s an all too convenient poisoning of the well. While primary candidates could be guests at such an event, for the OC DEC to take primary candidates’ money and then advertise the event as being hosted by primary candidates is appallingly unethical, and quite clearly, against party rules.
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The Democratic primary this year is a joke as the party has already nominated Crist. He was allowed to campaign at two DEC Chairperson’s meetings,
even though endorsing a candidate before the primary is prohibited by DEC rules. He was received at the DEC reception as if her were Christ, Himself, entering the room. I will vote for Nan Rich in the primary as I think she is the best candidate for Governor. I will support Crist in the gubernatorial election as he is the lesser of two evils.
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I too was appalled that the Democratic Party leaders not only allowed Crist to attend the “party” but allowed him to speak. Nan Rich knew this was a DEC DCCA event and not the place for campaigning. She is a class act he’s just an act.
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All that it will do is give the Republican backed candidate Rich an outlet to bash our nominee Charlie Crist. It is not in anyone’s best interest Except perhaps Rick Scott and the RPOF.
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Charlie Crist is our candidate and is now the de facto leader of our party. You can either accept that fact and move forward and trying to be productive or you can continue to write articles like this.
All of these people can continue to bitch and moan about Crist but not getting on the train means you’re left at the station.
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It also means they’ll be lending a hand to re-elect Ricky Scott to a 2nd term!
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It could be argued a full airing of the issues now and discussion on policy matters that impact Floridians rather than simply personality based politics (ie. we hate Rick Scott so vote for us) will serve the party and our nominee better in the fall. And do you really think this site and our writers are the only ones worried about these matters?
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I do not have a problem with debates – I have a problem with a candidate who cannot raise $$$ and cannot get any support demanding debates as a lifeline.
I have a problem with republicans coming into our primary and trying to influence the results.
I have a problem with exposing a certain nominee to danger statewide.
In other words this is a very bad idea.
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As I said yesterday on another thread but you don’t want to respond to:
What is the point of a political party if it does not have control over its own nominating process?
You may have a personal vendetta against Charlie Crist at the same time as having a desire to see Democrats in both House and Senate escape any sort of accountability but that is not where most Democrats are. Most Democrats want a gubernatorial nominee that can win and a legislative delegation that reflects their values.
You seem to want the opposite. Reminiscing about the old days when the Democrats controlled all these rural seats as you go on about in many of these nonsensical historical posts with members who would fit nicely into the Republican caucus. We actually have members right now from safe Democratic seats that would fit nicely into the Republican caucus if they didn’t have to face the prospect of primaries and reelection as Democrats.
Think long and hard about the example I gave you from 2010. Think long and hard about the representative I referenced from Tallahassee now in her third term and is voting properly on just about everything. She did not vote that way her first two years in the Legislature. Even you acknowledge that. Even you admit her voting record changed after the 2010 primary.
Now think about the governors race. You have at the top of this article referenced that Democrats have lost over 90% of statewide races. You claim we want to do the same thing over and over again yet the candidate we have proposed is completely different to any other candidate we brought. He has actually won several times state wide. He had NOTHING to do with all the loses you reference.
You can criticize the party but the fact that the leaders in our party want to change things and nominate someone completely different who has a proven track record winning elections shows that you and your allies are the ones who wants business as usual. You are the one saying we shouldn’t be putting primaries up against incumbent Democrats for state legislature yet we should have some sort of open process dominated by activists who really don’t know much about electoral politics for statewide elections.
It is well known you have a great relationship with some of the legislators and legislative types and probably just want to see the status quo there. You probably feel welcome because you can come back to the Capitol anytime after years of being away and still know everybody there who is a Democrat. Time hasn’t moved in that place. But the party itself has recruited young talent people who came out of the Obama campaign and know how to win and are hungry to win. Charlie Crist showed his loyalty to the Obama ticket in 12 and he is as good a Democrat is any now.
You are a smart guy and I would strongly suggest you do some soul-searching and reassess your position and get on the team instead of throwing stones at the team bus.
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You may have a personal vendetta against Charlie Crist at the same time as having a desire to see Democrats in both House and Senate escape any sort of accountability but that is not where most Democrats are. Most Democrats want a gubernatorial nominee that can win and a legislative delegation that reflects their values.
I’ve actually voted for Governor Crist before for a statewide office something most Democrats have not done so, this I am sure I do not have a personal vendetta. I will leave it at that. I am not disclosing which election or why, but I have voted for him. I have only voted for one other Republican for state office and that was Bob Milligan who was our Comptroller.
Reminiscing about the old days when the Democrats controlled all these rural seats as you go on about in many of these nonsensical historical posts with members who would fit nicely into the Republican caucus. We actually have members right now from safe Democratic seats that would fit nicely into the Republican caucus if they didn’t have to face the prospect of primaries and reelection as Democrats.
It seems party hacks like you want to pretend this current situation we find ourselves in is due to the system being rigged. At this website we are interested in reminding readers of better days, when the Democrats and progressive ideals were more successful at the state level. Why should we aspire to do better? Why should we discuss the past and learn from history? Why must we pretend like this current highly artificial state of things created largely by the ineptitude of a political party that has let its statewide infrastructure crumble and has parked its values somewhere else.
It is well known you have a great relationship with some of the legislators and legislative types and probably just want to see the status quo there. You probably feel welcome because you can come back to the Capitol anytime after years of being away and still know everybody there who is a Democrat. Time hasn’t moved in that place. But the party itself has recruited young talent people who came out of the Obama campaign and know how to win and are hungry to win. Charlie Crist showed his loyalty to the Obama ticket in 12 and he is as good a Democrat is any now.
I don’t understand the double-standard. You talk about wanting to primary legislators who could help our party raising money and recruiting candidates rather than worrying about what person is going to pop up and challenge them for the nomination and yet you seem to feel a party switcher who still doesn’t rhetorically neatly fit as a Democrat should get a free pass. I don’t understand this logic. As for Governor Crist, I have fewer problems with him than many others on the left. As I said before I have an open mind and have voted for him before. But not at least using this opportunity to hone him as a Democratic candidate is in my mind criminal. It just shows the lack of creative thinking, imagination and seasoning among the elites in our party.
Also RE: the 2010 example you give, I reiterate Rep. Rehwinkel Vasilinda had a race in 2008 where she almost lost to a Republican. She voted more conservatively for two years because of that. She was never that conservative but voted that way to avoid another tough GOP challenger. In 2010, after the primary you speak of she won easily in the general in a more Republican year and then moved back towards the left. I think primary itself had little to do with this. It was because of the general election threat being eliminated, and Rep. MRV moving back to her natural ideological position.
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Looks like Kartik has started a new job with the RPOF…
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Thanks. Peter Schorsch mentioned that a while back on twitter. Tongue in cheek of course from him but perhaps delusional seriousness from you?
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CharLIE is a CHICKEN!
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Not sure he’s a chicken but charLIE is correct.
The venom towards Governor Scott among some democrats is ill founded. Where is the party when he gets reelected? Where is the party when Crist gets elected and starts ad libbing his views and policies? You people I hope realize he has no discipline and just lasts what he has to say each day to get by. Is that who you want leading your party???
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The idea of going through an election without debates is insane in this day and age.
Really insane.
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Whatever happened to “We the People”. I don’t care if a candidate wants to debate or not. It should be up to the people and I don’t mean the parties. If Crist can’t handle Rich in a debate, why should we believe he would do better against a sitting governor. Come on Charlie, show some courage and quite being afraid to stand for what you believe. We should give Nan Rich her time on stage to see if she measures up for all of Florida, not just her democratic stronghold in south Florida.
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Why doesn’t TFS moderate a debate or a Google + Hangout as you people are launching that to have both Governor’s candidates on?
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This is a good idea. If not with the candidates themselves with reps for the candidates. Dan Gelber could represent Charlie, Rich could be repped by Buddy MacKay!
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Crist has refused to debate Nan Rich at least 5 times. Nan Rich is ready any time. People need to tell Crist we want a debate televised. I called the Florida Democrat Party and complained about Crist refusing to debate Rich. If others will call the FDP @ 850 222-3411 maybe Crist will soon agree to a debate if enough people call and put the pressure on.
Thank you,
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I think this call for debates is really kind of controversial. It is just another attempt by the fringe of our party the troublemakers who aren’t getting their way to try and attack our party at our new leader Gov. Charlie Crist.
I would urge those making trouble to realize that all they’re doing is helping Rick Scott. Florida cannot afford another four years of Scott we must have Charlie Crist as governor.
This is the most critical election of our lifetimes we must win.
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Charlie Crist’s refusal to debate Dem Nan Rich shows that he is afraid to debate her. By refusing, he is making it obvious he knows he cannot win a debate with her.
Yes it is a critical election and the only person causing a problem is Charlie Crist. He also seems arrogant and conceded to some, . He thinks Florida voters do not deserve to see a debate. His behavior seems cowardly. Also, refusing to debate a woman makes him seem like a chauvinist or misogynist. Many feel the same way I do regarding the refusal to debate. It just might cost him some votes.
Speculation about why the refusal is what he is accomplishing. I have even seen some say that Incumbent Rick Scott may be paying Crist to throw the election and allow Scott to remain Governor. Many Floridians feel disenfranchised and don’t have much faith in the Republicans running for Governor.
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Those of you backing Nan Rich and this stupid calls for debate – do you want a democrat as governor or a Republican?
That is the question. If you like Rick Scott keep agitating. If you want to win urge Rich to drop out and endorse Governor Crist.
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I love how you use certain things to maintain your progressive credit while essentially shilling for Democratic legislators that aren’t voting the right way and in fact at times are trying to destroy the party through other games. But considering who you backed for chair of the party it is no surprise. It is a pity because based on ideology of what you claim you are you would back the current leadership and party chair not the renegade faction causing problems. Democratic primaries are a mechanism with which to enforce the parties views. Primaries are important because they are way of holding Democratic members accountable for not voting with the party regularly. They are also important for membership might vote with us regularly but are causing other discontent within the caucus.
This is completely different than the gubernatorial primary. That is a statewide race where we have to face the most powerful Republican in the state after the primary. Having a primary serves no purpose particularly when one of the candidates, Nan Rich is so marginal.
Regarding the Tallahassee House District your logic is all messed up. The member that still sits in that seat changed her voting record because of a primary not because she didn’t have a strong general election opposition. I don’t know what you base your theory on but it is just flat out wrong.
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I think we are beating a dead horse now. We can go back and forth for days or weeks, but quite frankly I am beginning to find the debate boring and unproductive.
If you are willing to reveal you identity and motivations and want to pen an guest op-ed for this site as to why we are so wrong on all these issues, you are more than welcome to. Please email any idea for contributions to thefloridasqueeze@gmail.com .
Thank you.
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I just have to ask you people if you want to win or not. That is a simple question.
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Are you saying that, if Nan Rich is the Democratic candidate that you WON’T do all that YOU can to get her elected???????
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It is worth noting that this website practices a form of censorship. My IP address was walk because I had left comments deemed disrespectful to several State house members. However thanks to cell phones I have the ability to leave comments from another IP address.
I understand the former Democratic leader designee may be a friend of this site but that does not mean that comments about the past of that state representative should be censored and that those making those comments should be blacklisted. It’s called freedom and openness the same freedom and openness you claim to want and claim the party denies you.
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If you refrain from personal and malicious attacks you won’t have a problem. Unfortunately you did not do that. Hence the blacklisting.
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